Film Roar

You missed the storyline and then concluded there was none. Here's the reason for all those fight sequences.

The Machines created Zion to produce Neo as the ultimate embodiment of the Anomaly in order to study it and defeat it. What's going on in Reloaded is that Neo is being tested, guided to his next test and then tested. During each test, data is collected by the Machines for later analysis. Any weaknesses or patterns discovered will be fully exploited in the next verison of the Matrix.

For much more detail, please visit my threads and posts at MatrixReloaded.com, The Oracle's Apartment forum. URL above.

Leopoldo,
Given that nearly each and every part of this movie has meaning and signifigance...I'm curious as to how you justify your claim that this movie lacks "depth" and is therefore shallow (especially when compared to other movies that would be considered as its "peers").
In regards to your belief that the fight scenes are pointless...the only one that might be considered to not have a "logical" reason would be the "burly brawl" scene between Neo and Smith. But given that Smith is obsessive when it comes to destroying Neo (and therefore rather illogical) that is reason enough for it to be in the movie.
While not the most important conflict in the movie, the fight scene between Neo and the "upgraded" agents had reason given that Neo was protecting the rest of the individuals gathered to discuss the digging of the sentinels.
The fight scene between Neo and Seraph occured because of Seraph's purpose being to "protect that which matters most" and his believe that "you do not truly know someone until you fight them."
The fight scene in Merovingian's chateau and the parlaying of that battle onto the highway both had purpose given the value of the Keymaker.
The fight scene between Trinity and the agent was necessary given that she had to go into the matrix in order to keep Neo, Morpheus, and the Keymaker from exploding when the door to the source was opened. Also...if Trinity didn't have that battle with the agent...Neo most likely would have choosen to "Reload" the matrix instead of choosing to save her (there's no reason to "save" someone who isn't about to die) and a big part of the plot's development would have been missing. How you failed to take note of that pertinent piece of info is beyond me.
So...I'm really not understanding how you believe that ANY of the fight scenes were not included out of purpose, but were instead included because of some "feeling" that there should be a fight scene at that given moment.

In regards to your belief that the brothers bent or broke some of their own rules...if you'll take note...the "rule" that Neo is the only one really capable of taking on agents and defeating them was indeed not broken and only bent justifiably.
The only other person that has so far defeated an agent besides Neo is Morpheus, and the only reason that he was able to do so was because that particular agent believed that he had already killed Morpheus. You should also take notice of the fact that the agent dominated that fight and sent Morpheus skittering across the top of that semi on many occasions.
Also...Trinity was not only tossed around like a rag doll, but was killed by the agent that she fought. So how you believe that she "not only held her own, but defeated these new and improved opponents" is indeed something that you should explain.
As for Neo no longer being able to "destroy" agents as he did in the first film...in what specific part of the movie is it demonstrated or even implied that Neo would be incapable of "destroying" an agent if he chose to do so?
You must also take into consideration the signifigance of Neo only CHOOSING to "destroy" SMITH the way that he did (recollect Smith's dialogue about his and Neo's apparent "connection" before they started to fight).
Along with this...you must keep in mind that movies are designed to entertain people. If the brothers had Neo diving into every opponent or simply holding up his hand and stopping any force directed at him EVERY SINGLE TIME it would become quite monotonous, and therefore lose it's entertainment value. The irony to this is...you would most likely be one of the people faulting Reloaded if the brothers decided to take that course of action with the movie.
Another thing that I do not understand is how you believe that this movie isn't worth as much discussion as the first. Given that there was nothing in M1 that was left open for debate (such as Reloaded's open ending of whether Zion is "real" or yet another false reality of the matrix) I'm curious as to what exactly it was that you discussed that you aren't able to do about this movie.
It seems to me that you let outside influences limit your viewing of this film as nothing more than a typical action movie, thus limiting yourself from taking in the depth and subtlety of Reloaded's story, which you ridiculously claim that this movie doesn't possess. Not only that that, but your mindset limited you to the point that you were even blinded to what exactly happened in the in-your-face fight scenes.
I would suggest that you "wake up," "free your mind," and go see Reloaded again without any pre-conceived expectations. This time...it will be a five, but that's just my opinion :-)

I just posted a new update:

Film Roar: Egyptian Censors ban Matrix Reloaded

Just wanted to add that Trininty also defeated an agent in the first movie.

In regard to the reviewer's comments about the fight scenes lacking a real purpose, I would second Loki's comments, and point out that even the Burly Brawl did have a plot-advancing rationale: to show what Smith's new capabilities were. Granted, there was no compelling reason for it to happen at that specific time in the movie as opposed to any other time, but come on: If you really want to complain, you could also suggest that Neo's early warning should have enabled all the ship captains to escape the meeting without confronting the agents (thus eliminating that pointless fight scene), or suggest that Persephone could have helped the three of them to escape with the Keymaker without alerting her husband (thus eliminating *two* pointless fight scenes, including the freeway chase). Of course, then the entire movie would consist of obtuse philosophy, and I suspect it would've made about twenty bucks at the box office. Seriously, people go to movies like these to see the cool kung-fu, and I found it to be less gratuitous in this movie than most (or, at the very least, no more gratuitous than it was during the first movie).

I'd also like to correct the reviewer on one point. He asks why Morpheus and Trinity were able to hold their own, but the characters they fought in this movie (the Twins, mostly) were *not* upgraded agents. In fact, they were outdated versions, holdovers from earlier iterations of the Matrix which the Merovingian was keeping around for his own amusement. When characters other than Neo did fight the upgraded agents, they *did* lose - except when Morpheus caught one by surprise, but that is fully in keeping with Trinity's killing one, also by surprising him, in the first movie.

I have a brother who swears that Niobe died in the movie, please clarify for me. Did she? I do not think she did, but now I am not sure.

Thanks

niobe didnt die...she and her ship the logos were lost in a tunnel...this is shown in the game...lso i saw the trailer at the end of the game for revolutions and she is in it...

niobe didnt die...she and her ship the logos were lost in a tunnel...this is shown in the game...lso i saw the trailer at the end of the game for revolutions and she is in it...

Someone that looked like Niobe died. She was in one of the three teams that was completely destroyed, the one hacking the computers to shut down the power I believe.

My review of the Animatrix is posted at:

Film Roar: Animatrix (2003)

Leopoldo,
Your review very accurately reflects my feelings when the movie was over. I still harbor some hope that an underlying fundamental philosophy is expressed in Reloaded. I've spent some time browsing the net and looking up references. But the very first time I saw "The Matrix" (not in the theater, just picking it up 30 minutes in on cable,) I knew that this was a profound metaphor for the most significant issues in spiritual, theological and philosophical thought. If that's in Reloaded, I missed it completely. There's some interesting philosophizing about free will, and there's appealing questions about the structure of the fictional world that Reloaded presents.

Many comments about Reloaded actually remind me of John Nash's ability to draw patterns from random points (in "A Brilliant Mind"). Reloaded has so many people and does so many things, there's bound to be hidden messages if you look hard enough. But as for a fresh perspective on ancient themes, I'm really sorry, I totally missed it.

I can be quite satisfied with having been well entertained by a cool movie, and look forward to the next one with great anticipation. But, when it comes to the status of "Movie without Peer" "The Matrix" will be the One.

Check out
www.matrix-explained.com

This totally describes what happened to me.

"I would suggest that you "wake up," "free your mind," and go see Reloaded again without any pre-conceived expectations. This time...it will be a five, but that's just my opinion :-)" - Loki

After I saw it the second time I was wondering where my mind was during the first time I viewed the movie. I think myself, like many other viewers, went in with the preconceived perceptions and bounderies put up by the first matrix. Finally when I started to talk with other viewers the story started falling in place for me and when I saw it the second time I was astonished that I had missed so much meaning the first time (like the convo in boiler room as well as the obvious aspects of the convo with the architect.) I guess seeing the 7:00 p.m. showing on prom night had my mind in other places. I still believe the first Matrix was much better just in the way it introduced such a fresh style and in the way the scenes seemed to be seemless. Each tied together in a way that you couldn't watch just one before getting pulled into another. I like the philosphy and ideals behind the second one but I still believe it could have been executed a lot better. Ok we get it. Neo is "The One". He doesn't have to keep kicking butt to make us believe. I think if they could have had more subtle introductions for more of Sions ships and crew as well as having them play a little bit of a bigger role it would have been nice. The way they tried to pack all the character developement and convo into the first half of the movie so your going from conversation to conversation and finally your just wishing someone would throw a punch or get assimilated. I think "Link" can burn in hell unless "Tank" mysteriously shows up in the next movie. The fact that in the second movie they opened the viewers up to EVERYTHING (all the other crews, sion, the counsel) it kind of made the transition into the bigger picture way too fast instead of the simple Nebecanesure (however you spell it) viewers knew in the first movie. I thought of many cooler ways of execution for this but then again I'm not one of the writers so it really doesn't matter.

Final Words:
Well, Reloaded is amazing in it's philosophy and meanings but not as well executed as the first.

I think mediamisfit has got it right - the concept of the matrix has been significantly developed but the film has been poorly directed, well compared to the matrix anyway!

I don't understand why the architect is so confident in his matrix when it is now revealed that errant programmes can operate outwith the control of the matrix and programmes can CHOOSE to retain other obsolete programmes for their own pleasure. also smith is on the loose but 'disconnected' from the matrix and looking for 'purpose' (this wasn't developed at all) surely this is a huge can of worms far more threatening than the remaining humans of zion. it sounds as if human type vagaries are being introduced in to the workings of the matrix - I wonder if that might be part of a possible downfall of the matrix in revolution?

Jyotirmaya posted the Yoga of the Matrix on Film Roar: Matrix Discussion Slogs Geekroar which seems to have some pretty deep analysis of the Matrix themes. Check it out at:
www.members.lycos.co.uk/jyotirmaya

Sneek peak into revolutions: The "smith-neo" brawl scene is to show neo's vulnerabiltiy in the third movie. I got a sneek peak at the transcript:)

i don't believe it is smart to watch matrix revolutions with preconceived notions of premises.

Truth is the thesis in this movie.

The theatricl trailer for Revolutions is now available. Details are at:

Film Roar: Matrix Revolutions Trailer Online

with all the hollywood-action crap out there, how could you possibly complain about this movie?!?

Hey everyone. I've been scouring the net and nobody anywhere that I've seen has asked or questioned one part of Reloaded that I didn't understand. I've seen and replayed the scene several times and it just doesn't make any sense. When the Keymaker is sitting in Morpheus' old chair near the end discussing how Neo needs to get through two doors while two power sources need to be blown up, his explanation is confusing. He talks about a "window" of 3:14 minutes. In order for any window to exist, there must be two points/events bracketing the 3:14, what the heck are they? They cut the power at midnight, and Neo and Morpheus enter the door, that is obviously event one. What happens after 3:14?

At first I believed that the way it works is that the first power source blows, they enter, a connection has to be remade (as the Keymaker says), they cut the backup power, and they enter the second door. If that is true, then why the need for 3:14? As long as the connection is made after the first door is entered, it wouldn't matter how long they took to blow the second one, as long as Neo and Morpheus waited that long. The problem is that the KEYMAKER sets this 3:14, it's not like the humans decided how long.

The whole scene never sat well with me the first time through, in fact I spent much of the end of the movie distracted by this misunderstanding. There was NO need for the writers to write that part so vague, but I doubt they wrote it thinking, "we need a suspenseful time limit, but nothing makes sense, we'll just snow over the audience and they won't notice". That can't be right since there are WAY easier ways to create a 3:14 window that actually make sense.

Am I totally missing the boat here? Who can explain it clearly? There should be no 'theories', it should be cut and dried!

Help!

A new post was made this morning for people who have seen the third movie and would like to discuss it. A review will go up once I have seen it until then a good place to ask and answer Revolutions questions is:

Film Roar: The Matrix Revolutions Discussion

The review for Revolutions is now up at:

Film Roar: The Matrix Revolutions (2003)

I've watched Reloaded and M1 a few times and wonder "Are the array of monitors in the M2 Architect scene and the array of monitors shown just before Neo is interrogated by the agents (when the "bug" is implanted) the same thing? Not really that important, but an interesting detail I just picked up on.

Also, I wondered about the word "Merovingian" and looked it up in the dictionary (and in Google with a -matrix listing so I wouldn't find Matrix info). It turns out the Merovingian is a dynasty of peoples coming from a mythical hero and ended up adopting Christianity (http://www.germanculture.com.ua/library/history/bl_medieval.htm). I'm not smart enough to figure out if there is a connection, but it's a temptingly parallel tidbit.